Episode 40: Inside the MGCB’s Criminal Investigations Section

In this episode of Double Down Michigan, Executive Director Henry Williams sits down with John, the manager of the Michigan Gaming Control Board’s Criminal Investigations Section (CIS), for an inside look at one of the agency’s most essential — and least visible — functions.

The CIS serves as the MGCB’s law enforcement and investigative backbone, working alongside the Attorney General’s office, state police, and local agencies to investigate illegal gambling and protect the integrity of Michigan’s gaming industry. The section also manages an anonymous tip line for the public, fielding hundreds of leads each year and turning credible information into action.

Whether you’re a Michigan resident curious about how illegal gambling is kept in check, a gaming industry professional, or simply someone who wants to understand how a regulatory agency enforces the law, this episode pulls back the curtain on a critical part of the MGCB’s mission.
 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hello and welcome to this episode of Double Down Michigan Podcast, where we spotlight the people and work behind the Michigan Gaming Control Board. I'm Executive Director Henry Williams, and today I'm joined by John, the manager of one of our most important and perhaps least talked about sections, our criminal investigation section. The CIS is the investigative engine of this agency. It works, protects the public, upholds the integrity of Michigan gaming industry, and supports law enforcement partners across the state. Today we'll dig into what that work actually looks like from the inside. Welcome to the podcast, John.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

John, tell us a little about yourself and how did you end up leading the criminal investigation section at the Michigan Gaming Control Board?

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Well, I started with the board in 2008, and um it wasn't too long after we started to grow and expand and uh were given additional acts to regulate that we decided or really realized that there was a a need for a section to um to do what we did, and that's um to to look at things from uh the criminal side, mainly because of uh resources uh being short you know across the state, and uh we felt it was our job and our duty as the uh the the gaming experts uh in the state of Michigan to to be the ones to step up and and handle that.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Okay, great. For people who may not know much about um this part of the agency, how would you describe what the criminal investigation section does in plain terms?

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Essentially, we um we review information that the agency gets from various sources um into uh allegations of illegal gambling. Um we take that initial information uh and then try to determine how credible it is. Um if it is credible, then we assign the uh uh the investigation for uh we we sign it then for an investigation, and our main goal is then is to seek uh you know uh successful criminal prosecution if we go that route or are successful in an administrative hearing.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Okay, great. Um, John, the criminal investigation section is described as a professional resource for both board staff and outside agencies. What does that dual role look like today? And how do you balance the needs of internal staff versus external law enforcement partners?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Um our section is probably not much different than than any other um job, and in in the in the sense that um we can become resource-strapped at times, and that's dependent on the amount of uh work that comes in. Um in those instances uh we need to prioritize our tasks, uh paying you know special attention to providing a uh uh a professional, high quality uh service. Um we set pretty high goals for ourselves. Um by doing this, we can ensure that um you know everything is handled uh fairly. Uh assignments are uh hard part are doled out equally, and we don't end up giving you know uh preferential treatment to either you know an internal or external partner.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Okay. The criminal investigation section handles both criminal investigations, things that can result in criminal charges, in regulatory or administrative investigations. Can you walk us through the difference and give us a sense of which tends to make up the bulk of your work?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

The main difference I think between the two of them is that uh is in the penalty that that can be handed out at the end of the investigation. Um criminal investigation uh can result in a penalty that uh uh results in uh jail time as well as a fine and a regulatory or administration, administrative investigation, um, it won't have any jail time, but it can have a uh a fine, and uh it may have licensing action if the uh individual involved is a licensee. The other thing that's uh a little bit different is that the uh the standard that's needed to um to successfully prosecute um these types of investigations. Uh, standard for a criminal investigation is you have to prove to a judge or jury uh through the evidence that the person committed the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a is a pretty high standard. And in a regulatory or administrative standard, um you go in front of a uh hearing officer, and there the evidence is uh you have to show that the it's it's more likely than not that that individual uh committed the violation, and in which case then they will probably end up with a fine or like I said, uh maybe a licensing sanction.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Okay. Um the criminal investigation section runs an anonymous tip line in email for the public to report suspected illegal gambling. In 2025, John, your section reported receiving 336 tips. What kind of tips typically come in, and how do you decide which ones are worth pursuing?

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I think our tips are pretty much broken up into two categories. We get a lot of tips for uh that are patron disputes, and these would be people that um uh felt that something was wrong either at one of the uh the three licensed casinos or uh one of iGaming platforms. Um and then the other uh portion of tips, which probably the bulk of them, um deal with illegal gambling, and that can be um uh machines uh in uh bars, restaurants, party stores, online raffles, uh Facebook raffles, um poker rooms, uh horse racing investigation, or illegal gambling and horse racing, which is really starting to wind off, and then fraud related to eye gaming. All this information comes in, like I said before, we look at it and uh we we try to triage it and uh determine it that if the that the information is valid, and then if it is, um it gets assigned for to an investigation.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Okay. Thank you for that explanation, John. And for our listeners, the anonymous tip line phone number is 888-314-2682. Again, that number is 888-314-2682. Or you can send us an email at Michigan GamblingTip at Michigan.gov. Michigan GamblingTip at Michigan.gov. John, why is it important for the public to have a way to report illegal gambling activity? And what would you say to someone who has information but is hesitant to come forward?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Well, I mean, it's really important that people have a way to do this because if um nobody says anything or reports anything, nobody's ever gonna know about it. And if nobody knows about it, then there's absolutely zero chance of uh of it being corrected or addressed. I think that um when it comes to people that are hesitant about coming forward, the biggest reason for that is that um a lot of people want to do the right thing, but they want to stay anonymous. And they feel that if they come forward that they're gonna, you know, be you know called into court to testify or their names are gonna be put in the uh into a report, and and and that's really not the case. Um, we have an anonymous tip line, and I promise that if anybody wants to be and remain anonymous, they will. Um I will not send an investigation to the attorney general's office if that's the wishes of the person reporting that information. Um when they do put come in send information either to the uh email or through our voicemail, um, we would like a callback number or a way to get back to them because there's sometimes there is follow-up information that we need to get that that isn't given initially. Um that's not going to change the fact that we're not we we will keep them anonymous if they really wish to. I mean, if they want to testify, then that's fine too. But if they they don't, we'll keep their name anonymous.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Okay. Well, thank you, John, for providing the public with those assurances. Um, without getting into anything sensitive, can you give us a sense of what a typical criminal investigation involves? What skills and resources does your team draw on?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

Um, our investigations involve gathering evidence. Like I said, there's there's two standards we have to ch uh achieve, but it in both of them involve gathering evidence to meet the elements of gambling. So our people need to be well versed in gambling laws, um, not only those that are in the uh the acts that are under our jurisdiction, but also uh in the penal code. Um obviously, if we're investigating a situation that involves people, those people need to be identified. So uh our people need to be well versed in using uh technology, um, computer databases and programs to help identify individuals um that are involved in the uh ego gambling. And last, I think they have to have a um uh a really good ability to articulate their observations. They need to be able to go into uh court in front of a trier of a fact, whether it's a judge or a jury, and put into terms what they saw in in a way that those individuals who aren't really experienced in gambling can understand because it can be pretty complicated. If they can't do that in court, we don't have a chance uh of winning our cases.

SPEAKER_02 10:29

So it does take some experience and investigations. You your staff comes with a certain level of investigative background.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

We do. We we look to uh to people that have um done this kind of investigation, and there's a lot of different types of investigations. Um when we interview, I particularly like to look for people that um have what I call that um healthy skepticism. Um I I don't want or don't need somebody that is just automatically going to believe what they're told. They have to be able to ask those follow-up questions to to verify, almost like I said about the the tips. You know, we get a tip, we have to verify that how credible it is. Well, if you get information from an individual, it's the uh the the reg officer's job to um determine the credibility of that statement, and that comes through doing follow-up invest or follow-up questions to determine if they're telling the truth or not. Um so yeah, they they do need to have uh have some experience.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Trust but verify.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Um, John, illegal gambling can take shape in a number of forms, such as underground card rooms, illegal gaming machines, sports betting outside of licensed platforms. What types of illegal gambling activity are you seeing most often in Michigan right now?

SPEAKER_01 11:45

Right now, we're still seeing um quite a few gambling machines in businesses. Um a few years ago we were seeing a lot of standalone businesses that might have 30 or 40 machines in them. Um we've got that whittled down to to pretty much nothing, but we still see, you know, locations like I said, bars, restaurants, uh party stores that might have one or two machines in there because they do make a lot of money for those establishments. Um we also are getting and seeing a lot of of illegal online gambling, a lot of offshore gambling. Um we still see a lot of Facebook raffles. Um I think a lot of people look at that and think that um that there's nothing illegal about it, but but it is you have to have a license. So I guess, you know, to to go back to your question, that probably uh machines in in um businesses and uh online gambling.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Okay. Would it be fair to say, John, that just for the public to understand that if you don't have a license from the Michigan Gaming Control Board or the State Lottery Commission, and if you have a machine or any type of gambling product, you're probably operating illegally.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Yeah. Um, and I think it's really interesting that um how clever the the the the the makers and suppliers of the m these machines are because they try to use and they have historically tried to use current statutes um as a an umbrella to uh to hide behind or hide under. Um a lot of games we see right now, um the the uh suppliers of machines will tell people that these are they qualify as what's called a redemption game. And um that's just it's not the case at all. Um they it it's a slot machine and they look like a slot machine and it spins like a slot machine, it's a slot machine.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

It's a slot machine. Yep. And uh and just recently I was picking up a breakfast sandwich at one of my favorite restaurants, and the drive-thru was closed, so I went indoors and what's sitting there, a coin machine. What is what's the legality with these coin machines?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

It's kind of funny because initially we didn't really look at those as serious as we do now. And I think the reason we started focusing a little bit more on that is because of the uh number of tips that we're getting in from the public. But when you actually look at those machines and and when you understand what the elements of gambling are, you realize that that these machines are a game of chance. That there is no skill involved in it, first off, and the games actually do kind of cheat the player because on the sides of the machines, normally out of a view, by because of a uh an aluminum or metal cover are two um we call them profit chutes. So when these coins start getting pushed forwards, the vast majority of the coins that get pushed forward go down these profit chutes and into a bucket uh in the back of the machine for the owner of the machine. Very few go into the cup that the player gets. So if you are playing one of these games and you get, you know, five or ten dollars in quarters, there's probably about twenty dollars and quarters that went into these other chutes.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Wow. And those are called profit chutes.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

That's what we call them, yeah. Because it makes it more profit for the uh the owner of the machine.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yes. And if I recall correctly, there were some machines, it's different elements to how they tie this money down or it's weighted where the dollars or big prices don't move.

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Right. Um a lot of them will have uh a magnetic keychain on it. And uh, you know, instead of having uh being quarters and they and they bill themselves as quarter toil pushers, uh that keychain will be attached to a a $50 bill. Well, that $50 bill is not going to come through. You know, we've seen them glued to the bottom too. So it's all designed to make money for the one supply in the machine and take it from the one playing the machine.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

All right, the public already here. So stay clear of these coin machines and these slot machines that are not licensed by the Michigan Game Control Board, and you will never find those in bars or restaurants or anywhere else. If you're not in a commercial casino or playing on one of the platforms that's licensed by the Michigan Game Control Board, they are illegal here in the state of Michigan. Um, John, people might wonder why illegal gambling enforcement matters as long as nobody's getting hurt. What's your your response to that? And what are the real harms the criminal investigation section is working to prevent?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

I think if you keep in mind that gambling is um is a vice, and if you you Google what a vice is, you'll find that it's a an activity that involves uh risk of moral decay, financial ruin, or addiction. And and if we keep in that, you you you can't say that nobody gets hurt. Uh everybody might not get hurt, but somebody's gonna get hurt. And and I think what we'd really like to prevent is people from being taken advantage of and being separated for from what they work so hard for, and that's their money.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Yes. And just for our listeners, the the legal gambling age here in Michigan is 21, um, outside of fantasy contests. So when you're at the restaurant with your children, and there's games there that's taking coins and coin pushers, you know, or there's slot machines there. Understand these businesses are grooming our children early to gamble, and that's what we want to prevent. Um, what are you most proud of when you look at the work your section has done?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I think um actually I think I'm pretty proud of the fact that we've been able to give the public and our partners uh one place to get dependable, reliable information on a subject that that's often misunderstood, often looked at with apathy because there's so much legalized gambling. Um and and we don't do it in a manner that um just shuffles them off to another agency. We if they call and uh need help related to gambling, we're gonna get them the help.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

All right, John. Thank you for all that great information. So, John, really fascinating work. Um, before we close out, let's have a little fun so our listeners can get to know you a bit better. So, here we go. How about if you had to describe your job using only one word, what would it be? Fluid. You work in a field that's full of rules and regulations. What's a rule in your everyday life you're probably too strict about?

SPEAKER_01 18:27

I think it would have to be the expectations that I hold other people to only because uh it blinds me into um not taking into consideration their strength and weaknesses. Um I have a uh a certain, like I said, expectation of how things should go, and if it doesn't isn't achieved, then I'm not happy.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

I think we all have that issue. We would call us overachievers have that issue.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Okay, then I don't feel alone then.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

No. John, if you weren't in law enforcement or gaming regulation, what career do you think you might have ended up in?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Um I think I would have loved to work in a an emergency room in a trauma center.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Really?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Before I uh uh signed up with the state police, I worked for an ambulance company and was working uh on uh my paramedic license. Um and then I got called by the state police. But uh yeah, I I found that fascinating. Um I liked that uh uh I I just really like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Okay, very good. Well, John, this has been a really eye-opening conversation. The work of the criminal investigation section. May not always make headlines, but it's essential to making sure Michigan's gaming industry remains fair, legal, and trustworthy. Thank you for sharing what your team does and why it matters. Thank you for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

And thanks for everyone listening to Double Down Michigan. Until next time, play smart, play responsibly, and we'll see you on the next episode.